Talk to me about Zone 2 running

mattsurf · Joined: 28 Sep 2016 Posts: 852 Location: Zug, Switzerland

I read a lot about the bulk of running should be in zone 2, Fink and Freil, 80:20 running etc all advocate a lot of Zone 2

This season, the bulk of my runs have been zone 2, with a weekly interval set. Even though my Z2 runs are getting quicker, currently around 4:55/km, they are pretty easy and can be a little boring. Intervals are fun in a painful sort of way (maybe I am just strange), especially as there is someone who is just a little bit quicker than me, I really try to hang on, and he is now upping his game to stay ahead.

Today I did a half marathon at what I perceived to be HIM pace - my legs were tired from an hour on zwift at my ftp yesterday, followed by a pretty hard pool session. My run was evenly split 45% Zone 3 and 45% Zone 4 - and I was shocked just how hard it was, it took a massive mental effort to hit my times for each km in order to get a negative split (I think that I have OCD about getting a negative split on my runs). I am not sure that loads of zone 2 runs and intervals prepares an athlete mentally for stepping up to race pace

I will be bringing in at least one longish (13km+) tempo run each week. Even if it doesn't bring fitness gains, I think I need it to help manage the mental aspect of the run and to get used to the hurt.

Strangely, even though I do find riding at FTP physically hard, mentally I find it much easier to deal with

I know that there are a lot of good runners here, what does your training schedule look like?

Jorgan · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:35 pm Post subject:

Also Google Maffetone! he advocated a lot of low intensity training, although that was working with athletes like Mark Allen who did 30h+ weeks.

Zone 2 based off LTHR or MHR? Very Happy

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mattsurf · Joined: 28 Sep 2016 Posts: 852 Location: Zug, Switzerland

explorerJC · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 16060 Location: Farthingstone

Buzz_ · Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 453

How many runs are you doing? Z2 easy runs are boring, but necessary, you can't run hard every time, and keeping long runs slow helps with recovery times.

1 hard session a week is probably right, you could alternate intervals one week with tempo the next. But unless you are running 5-6 sessions a week then 2 fast sessions much. Especially as your target is halfs and full, pace is unlikely to be your limiting factor.

I try to do 1 hard run or session a week plus 2/3 other runs, sometimes I'll add in a parkrun for tempo. But I'm aiming for Olympic distance, and enjoy running hard. There is a school of thought you should do all your hard sessions on the bike and keep the running easy, but where is the fun in that?

jibberjim · Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 8392 Location: Kingston

mattsurf · Joined: 28 Sep 2016 Posts: 852 Location: Zug, Switzerland

thanks, for comments. I have been gradually ramping up my running volume from around 35km per week 3 months ago to 50km currently

My fast half was 4:40 pace, while I run a 5km at 3:55 (19m30 parkrun), my fastest intervals are 3:20 pace

I think that I will continue with mainly running at Zone 2, but every other week do one of my longer runs at race pace

Did my first outdoor ride today after a month on Turbo Trainer, amazed how strong I have become, set a new FTP, which was nice (albeit only a slight improvement)

explorerJC · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 16060 Location: Farthingstone

Tigger · Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 2806 Location: Hampshire

YKK · Joined: 23 Oct 2011 Posts: 317 Location: North&West london

I first found the/a Maffetone story on a website way back in 2012 when I had tried and failed again to break sub 3 for a marathon.

I picked my HR (149) at the time, and tried to stick at it. I was around the correct pace anyhow, but it did speed me up on downhills and slowed me slightly on uphills. Anyhow, I ran at the pace pretty much exclusively from July to November that year, I think I did some "intervalish" type work in one 13 mile run a week, but my mileage was probably more 95/5 rather than 80/20. I think I got up to about 60 miles a week of running with 60 or 70 miles of London commute as well on the bike. Some quite a lot of low intensity.

Anyhow I broke 3 hours in November and have not looked back running wise.

Whether it is age/aerobic fitness/other, I now find that I go no where near 149 in training and I now hover around 130-140bpm for the same pace and faster as I was in the 2012 block of training.

Unlike you MattSurf, I don't seem to be able to run intervals on my own so now I try and do 1 or 2 park run or equivalent races a week which are my only speed work.

It is not for everyone, but it seems to work for me and has given me a massive base allowing me to run well whether it be an ultra, off the bike or just a straight marathon with very little specific training.

gingerbongo · Joined: 21 Sep 2012 Posts: 1733 Location: Devon

A slightly unhelpful observations, but it really does depend.

In the last few years, where i've mainly concentrated on running, i have tried both approaches and have had reasonable sucess in both.

I broke sub 3, comfortably, in my first mara. Averaged abvout 50-60km a week (pretty low for mara training) and was made up of a mix of tempo, hills, intensity and slower recovery stuff. I am naturally quite well endowed with speed, so that's never been my limiting factor at anything over 5k - it's speed endurance.

I also tried 100% zone 2, slow and steady running but that was all 100-170km weeks. Got close to my 5km PB, PB'd over 1/2 but picked up a niggle just before the mara which blew my attempt. that said i was on for something 10-15 mins quicker than PB.

Nowadays i can't afford the time for masses of Z2 work - i personally think the volume has to be pretty huge to get the real gains - so i'm going back to the shorter, more intense style. I'm aiming for 1 x hill reps session, 1 longer run on the bigger hills (OK not swiss hills, but big for the Devon coast Very Happy

!! ) and then fill it with steady mileage whenever i can get out. Currently only managing 3 x a week, but i know i need to up this to 5 x a week.

I think it also depends on the speed with which you recover and your injury proone-ness (EJC will say nobody should be prone to injury if they look after themselves properly Smile

) !

You have a big base, so i think some decent tempo and RP stuff is a must - but listen to your body. You do a lot of multi sport training, so be prepared to dial back a run session when needed, as i'm sure that would cause more damage the equialent thrashing in the pool or on the bike.

twhat · Joined: 28 Oct 2011 Posts: 1271 Location: London

I'll chip in with my own experiences... being the definitive time crunched 'athlete' i tend to do more 'quality' run sessions than most, be those hill reps, interval sessions, tempo or 'longer-race' paced runs. I tend to not really run easy unless i run my (partial) commute which is 10k ish with a bag.
I normally tick over on 40k a week and even in a 12 week marathon build will struggle to average more than 70k a week.
The results have basically been, as far as i can tell, a drop off in performance as distance increases. I have relative success at 5km and cross country and tend to blow up, or at least struggle, in marathons. I know this from the various 'calculators' but also from comparison with many other guys from my own and other local running clubs.
I reckon i might lose my job soon so that being the case i might be able to put it to the test and do some longer slower stuff and finally nail a marathon Very Happy

hammerer · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject:

My opinion is pretty much matching others here, basically the more you run the more easy stuff you have to do. Only have to look at some elites, take Alex I know he averages about 8min miles over a week. In his peak last year he was up at 90ish miles a week. Most of that easy.
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explorerJC · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 16060 Location: Farthingstone

explorerJC · Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 16060 Location: Farthingstone