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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone
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Tigger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2806
Location: Hampshire
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 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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If only there was some easy way of finding it? You know, from an arm chair or some where in Scotland?
More seriously, I really feel for their families. It's a horrible situation.
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SloggingScotsman
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2967
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Took longer than I expected...
It is however entirely possible to find it from an armchair in Scotland, as long as you have...
1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity changes.
2. A mathematician with a big computer.
3. Access to current global ocean sensor data.
The US Military admit to having employed such people for over a decade.
Can’t imagine they, and other nations, don’t still do today. Quietly. Russian retired ones also went public after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Instead of taking the p@ss I hope that America or any other nation with access to such oceanographic data is lending a hand, especially if they do still have a viewing team.
Keep up.
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CrazyGirl
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: No longer walking in a Wigan wonderland!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| SloggingScotsman wrote: |
1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity |
What do you think he will do part the seas and feed them with bread and fish?  
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SloggingScotsman
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2967
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyGirl wrote: | | SloggingScotsman wrote: |
1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity |
What do you think he will do part the seas and feed them with bread and fish? |
his or her job (yes women are represented in the ranks of past US military viewers).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Submarine-Locating-Stewart-Edwards-ebook/dp/B06XBYH22Y
I just took what the US military declassified, used the first 2 (of six details and several more noted) stages, became reasonably competent at that level myself after shedloads of self training and practice, and applied it with maths and oceanography to a problem noted in The Economist.
I put some noses out in the viewing community, but one of those trainers did tell me that my approach was ‘clever’. A newbie teaching the instructors how to progress! ((Publicly the ex US military spooks have only taught how to develop through the stages to get detail on a target. I personally struggled to get past stage 3. My approach only requires the initial two stages, a bit of maths and hard science).
Look I am not looking for any animosity here, just remember that Ejc started this thread, and Tigger took over.
Even the British government has declassified stuff on this (with tons redacted).
You are about forty years out of date if you don’t believe in this. I have got some goats to go stare at.
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We vote to Brexit..but something happens so it doesn’t.
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Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SloggingScotsman wrote: | Took longer than I expected...
It is however entirely possible to find it from an armchair in Scotland, as long as you have...
1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity changes.
2. A mathematician with a big computer.
3. Access to current global ocean sensor data.
The US Military admit to having employed such people for over a decade.
Can’t imagine they, and other nations, don’t still do today. Quietly. Russian retired ones also went public after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Instead of taking the p@ss I hope that America or any other nation with access to such oceanographic data is lending a hand, especially if they do still have a viewing team.
Keep up. |
Either that, or it doesn't work...
Wake up.
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tigger wrote: | If only there was some easy way of finding it? You know, from an arm chair or some where in Scotland?
More seriously, I really feel for their families. It's a horrible situation. |
Indeed....I am just saddened that it hasn't been found
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SloggingScotsman
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2967
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ejc
While I obviously can’t test sub hunting, you would need military (probably US type military) resources re oceanographic data, I do know that viewing does work, and as you know have published my own data, and some of my own blind sessions are online.
Enough deja vu Ejc.
You live in your bubble and I will live in mine, while I develop such skills further. (Should clarify I haven’t crv’d for a couple of years now as explained previously, but am working on ways to make it more useful, eg sub hunting, after all there are plenty of viewers in our world, and they are not hard to find. Hopefully in a few more years I will have made some inroads into reliability issues).
The fair criticisms Ejc, as I have mentioned before are (1) reliability, (2) usefulness, and the (3) expectation gap between what was proven by scientists at Stanford and what you may expect. It’s a bit like the expectations gap auditors face.
Ejc perhaps it is you who needs to wake up.
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Trump elected.
We vote to Brexit..but something happens so it doesn’t.
Trump re-elected in 2020..99%
Something real bad happens to US during Trumps 2nd term..75%
Michelle Obama president in 2024...65%
In the next 10 years ww3 will start..47%.
Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SloggingScotsman
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2967
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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In an effort to prevent yet another deterioration into taking the p@ss, and going round and round the merry go round, I am going to let Ejc have his inevitable last word.
Now where do I leave those goats?
_________________
Trump elected.
We vote to Brexit..but something happens so it doesn’t.
Trump re-elected in 2020..99%
Something real bad happens to US during Trumps 2nd term..75%
Michelle Obama president in 2024...65%
In the next 10 years ww3 will start..47%.
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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Gus
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 2569
Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I believe one of our own research ships is now involved in the search & rescue.
Hope it's our boys that find it - would be great for Argie relations post Falklands. I spent a lot of time in Argentina a few years ago - lovely people, lovely place.
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gus wrote: | I believe one of our own research ships is now involved in the search & rescue.
Hope it's our boys that find it - would be great for Argie relations post Falklands. I spent a lot of time in Argentina a few years ago - lovely people, lovely place. |
Spectacular place by all accounts but not quite sure they have recovered from the junta...I hope it's find quickly by anyone or anything, not sure I care about which nationality
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JeffB
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1406
Location: Middlesbrough
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure I read on one article that it is possible they've just got a comms failure, and would probably just continue on with the mission.
Possibly a bit optimistic though.
Jeff
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Tigger
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2806
Location: Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JeffB wrote: | | Possibly a bit optimistic though. |
Yep 
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SloggingScotsman
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2967
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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0793Can’t believe that I am agreeing with Ejc again.
Viewing needs to be done blind/double blind, as imagination easily takes over and engulfs data into nonsense. So take this stage two data with a pinch of salt, but I post it in the hope that if it makes sense to anyone looking, it may help. But bearing in mind that it is front loaded and most definitely not being done blind hence it is probably just my imagination. But time being of the essence.
Ejc, just ignore this please, but the temperature differentials are all over the place on this. Warmish outside, hot on the ‘skin’ of the boat yet seemingly freezing cold inside. That makes zero sense to me. And it is confusing.
And the ‘pinging’ all around is as confusing as anything. But those pings seem to be emmenating externally, primarily from the west south west, closeish to a natural structure ( I know oceans are full of mountains). Seems to be in the water.
As this isn’t a proper session I will stop. Give you something to laugh at while helping you understand what stage two data is.
If you have a team of currently trained viewers (who can also do salinity and density) you could get heaps more data, through time, to correlate against ocean sensor data, as I explained in my book. Best if the team didn’t read the news and they must be blind to it. Though you can bet that at least one amateur team, and hopefully some professional teams are already on it. I mean there is at least one other viewer here (who I won’t out).
Apologies all, but having had a rare flash of numbers that go in an instant, I felt motivated to post as those are rare but I am working on grabbing them as if you could get GPs coordinates that would be quite something. But they are so darn fleeting, and rare.
Ejc, I reiterate again, not being blind and being two years plus out of practice, my thoughts above are probably just immagination. Just let it go. Please.
_________________
Trump elected.
We vote to Brexit..but something happens so it doesn’t.
Trump re-elected in 2020..99%
Something real bad happens to US during Trumps 2nd term..75%
Michelle Obama president in 2024...65%
In the next 10 years ww3 will start..47%.
Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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