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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Chrace wrote: |
But the pension is the crux of it really. It's hitting all over Europe with the babyboomers getting older and a dip in who pays for them. T. |
it's not as if we didn't all see this coming...
we/they will have the EU shortfall to pick up soon as well...
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Buzz_
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 453
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Chrace wrote: | | But the pension is the crux of it really. It's hitting all over Europe with the babyboomers getting older and a dip in who pays for them. |
What it needs is an influx of young, able bodied migrants to pick up the slack..
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GrahamO
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10203
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mattsurf wrote: | | Despite what GrahamO says, Productivity in France is pretty good, around 20% higher than the UK, but salaries are also higher, which does offset some of the difference |
The French efficiency is positive but like expecting the rich to pay all the taxes while the rest live off them, its not going to work.
You sgould try reading Atlas Shrugged for the dangers of overall being okay but finding that the top 10% are taking all the load and the rest are utterly useless economically.
As to the Marconi situation, and having worked them for over two decades I can say that you actually have no idea why it folded.
Marconi folded because of Gordon Brown, Vodafone and the rest of the 3G auction bidders. The treasury took about £35 billion in licence fees out of the market which left all the major operators out of cash for years to come - and just when the dotcom crash started, they had no money to buy stuff, so the supply chain crashed, and Marconi went bust.
But even though it was technically bust, all its assets were bought by others in the supply chain like Huawei and Ericsson - who the sold the exact same Marconi products to BT that they had always bought but under a different brand. The bigger operators ahd the cashflow to survive the BT auctions that put Marconi out of business.
Marconi SPa as it was, was always separate from the main Marconi group so it survived and it was nothing to do with manufacturing or cost or anything else. Its product line was aimed at the Tier 2 operators (Marconi Coventry and Liverpool supplied Tier 1 operators) so when Ericsson and Huawei came to buy stuff, they didnt want the tiddlers so Marconi SPa survived as their clients werent affected by the 3G auctions in Europe.
Marconi UK manufacturing as world leading, it won several Guinness Records and was lightyears ahead of Italy - and its unfortunate downfall was zero to do with manufacturing.
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Jorgan
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 18226
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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^^ Wasn't the only bit of Marconi that 'survived', the division* that merged with British Aerospace to form BAE Systems? The rest went to the wall in 2005/6, as you say.
* Marconi Electronic Systems
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explorerJC
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 16060
Location: Farthingstone
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Buzz_ wrote: | | Chrace wrote: | | But the pension is the crux of it really. It's hitting all over Europe with the babyboomers getting older and a dip in who pays for them. |
What it needs is an influx of young, able bodied migrants to pick up the slack.. |
and if only they had some sort of multi national agreement to cooperate economically with their neighbours...that would ceretainly stop them falling 2299.8 bn euros in debt...
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GrahamO
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10203
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Jorgan wrote: | ^^ Wasn't the only bit of Marconi that 'survived', the division* that merged with British Aerospace to form BAE Systems? The rest went to the wall in 2005/6, as you say.
* Marconi Electronic Systems |
Not correct as MES split from the GEC group, BEFORE the formation of the consolidated Marconi Group.
It was the sale of the defence business and the buyout of the Siemens share in the GPT company and the merger of the MarconiSPA Italian business, which formed the Marconi group.
The MES defence business was never actually part of Marconi - just its GEC predecessor.
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Arguing with engineers is like wrestling in mud with a pig - after a while you realise they like it
newMan : I don't know why you think you can address me like that! Don't ever reply directly to any of my posts again please.
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