The sub 3 hour marathon training thread

sb20 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 pm Post subject: Boston

Anyone here plannning on Boston in April. I really really want to break my 3hr cherry there!

Have not taken the autumn off this year so am in much better shape already
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First Tri an evening sprint in 2008 done a few since then inc 2x Roth, IM Wales, 2x Celtman, Alps d'Huez Long, O till O, Ceasers Camp 100 x2, Norseman, Ring O Fire, St Oswalds 100, Cambrian trail, 2 Race to the King, UTMB and so it goes on!

stenard · Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Posts: 2063

How's everyone going in the first few weeks of the year?

For me, getting back into the swing of running after an excessive December, was tough. I basically did nothing between Bahrain 70.3 and Christmas, other than drink and eat loads, and get fatter.

The result of returning to running was some seriously sore lower limbs. Somehow managed to clock up 49km during Christmas and New Year. That discomfort seemed to ease first week of Jan, and I ticked off a solid 80k, except for the fact the final km of that resulted in an acute calf twinge.

Cue no real running the following week. Physio, massage, and some stretching got me back out for a bit, and thankfully it was just excessive tightness meaning the muscle just screamed at me a bit, rather than an actual injury. Only 3 runs, and 33k in that week, 25k of that over the weekend at the end of the week.

Last week felt a lot better. After consultation with my physio and coach, I've ditched a Thursday recovery run for a S&C session. I'm going to commit to them. I've always just buried my head in the sand with those things in the past. As a result, I only ran 4 times, but managed 77k and felt good. 29k long run yesterday, with 17k in the middle at 4:26/km pace, so getting towards the ball park of target MP.

Just need to establish some consistency now over the coming weeks...
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goldenboots · Joined: 01 Apr 2011 Posts: 102

Back in the sub 3 club after 2.5 years away. Gloucester Marathon at the weekend and managed a nice new 3:30ish PB for a 2:56:14.

Was slowing for the last few miles but fortunately had built a rather huge buffer (through 1/2 way in about 1:25ish) so meant I could enjoy the last few miles with a smile knowing I would definitely do it.

That means I can do Boston next year now and stop chasing the sub 3 hour train for a while.

Rant - one of the guys in front (I was 7th place) put about 3-5 metres in me as he overtook by cutting the corner on the curb. If somebody does it once, one can only assume they will do it every possible opportunity - I'd guess there were at least 30 corners or so (it was a 4 lap race) where they cut have done the same!

Gave them an earful as they went by me on the 3rd lap so hopefully that was deterrent enough from doing it again... but at a small race where somebody was in the top 5 (and potentially on the podium for the whole race or at least the vet age group) I would have expected better!!

stenard · Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Posts: 2063

goldenboots · Joined: 01 Apr 2011 Posts: 102

I would definitely argue that anything off the road and up the curb is not part of the course, and is cutting a corner or cheating if you repeatedly take the inside line, no different from doing it on a track versus a measured road race. This guy at the moment was running at a similar pace, and went from about 2 metres behind me to 1-2 metres in front. Fine, I guess, if only done once... but 30 times or more in a race and he ends up saving a small amount of time. Also took some audacity to do that when the person in front (who you're actually racing) takes the proper route on the road and you decide to jump up on the pavment and cut a few metres out. It was a small race so there wasn't any dodging people or anything at any point really.

Again... not a material difference / only cheating himself etc etc blah blah ... but when it's a small race, and that person was in the top 5... would have hoped for better from somebody running at that level

stenard · Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Posts: 2063

Doca · Joined: 27 Feb 2014 Posts: 256

goldenboots · Joined: 01 Apr 2011 Posts: 102

interesting subject actually and interesting to hear other POVs on it.

For me - in a closed road race, the road is the course. If for example, only one lane of the road is closed, only that lane is part of the course - if only the left lane was open, it wouldn't be acceptable to go into the right lane of the road around a right hand bend would it.

Surely the same is true of the pavement, especially around a 90 degree bend in the course. AFAIK a route would never be measured by going up and over the pavement. You are cheating yourself of the measured course. And if others around you are taking the road and not cutting the corner, you are cheating others

Completely understand in regards to a mass of people doing this in a large city marathon, but even then, I personally where possible (which I'd argue is 99.9% of the time) would still stay on the road as that is the course.

Doca · Joined: 27 Feb 2014 Posts: 256

In the halfs and maras that I have done it was not possible to get near to the racing line for the first 10 minutes. I would think it very unlikely that you could go under the distance by running the pavement on a couple of corners. I'm not sure it is a clear advantage either as you have to interrupt your rhythm/stride for the curbs & change in heights.

Obviously anyone at the pointy end is going to run a shorter distance to the masses, it's just how it is.

stenard · Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Posts: 2063

I definitely get your point. But then, taking London as an example where there is the blue "racing line" actually painted on the floor, it is feasible to take shorter, sharper apexes around corners than the line is measured at.

As Doca says, I think it's just accepted that on the whole, you are never going to be able to run the shortest route that is conceptually possible, and so there's a bit of give and take.
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YKK · Joined: 23 Oct 2011 Posts: 317 Location: North&West london

When I race marathons, and I have run a few now, my main thoughts are:
Am I going to fast? (slow usually for the last 6 miles)
Am I taking the shortest line.

This is to say I spend most of my time making sure I take the shortest route I can. The generally involves looking ahead seeing which way the runners up ahead are going and then slightly adjusting my line to hit the corner in the shortest route. I try not to take out other runners obviously! basically I am saying I am fairly obsessed with it.
If I am moving faster then those around me at a corner, I may undertake them as it is the shorter route and I don't want to run further than I need to. Obviously it needs to be safe and I rarely go up a kerb, but do if I need to.

Side note, London 2015, I started at the back of the Red GFA as I was late and ended up behind the 3hr pacer with the inevitable massive clump of people. (I was running 2:55/2:56 pace, so faster but not by much. It took about 7 miles to get through the crowd safely without going to wide on any of the corners and to be honest probably did me the world of good as from memory I died very little on that one.

Even with all that obsession I expect all the marathons I have run, I have always ended running over distance anyhow, so in my view it comes in the wash.

Side note 2: At my old local park run there is a pavement all round the inside of the course and around the back of the course it is customary to pop onto it once around the larger part of the bend as you need to cross it to run up the hill. However once someone near my pace ran the whole race on the pavement which really irked me, luckily I beat otherwise I may well have said a few words. Mad

Buzz_ · Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 453

So you are happy to cut the course in an official race but get wound up when someone else cuts a corner in a timed run?

Just because you haven't run the shortest line on the rest of the course, doesn't give you licence to make up the difference by cutting somewhere else. Having said that, someone running on pavement instead of road is not something that I would get excited about.

goldenboots · Joined: 01 Apr 2011 Posts: 102

Just to point out - this was a 250 person race with no having to move or dodge people or anything. There was absolutely no reason not to be able to take the racing line for pretty much the whole race

And more to the point - if it's OK to do it once or twice, I can only assume that person will be willing to do it over and over. The only example I saw of this person, they were not slightly going on the inside of somebody and stepping up on to the curb... they cut the corner to shorten the route. There was nobody else around except me in a couple of metres in front and I stayed on the road, they weren't dodging.

And to repeat the point... if it's OK to do it once, I can only assume they will do it again and again.